A meeting of minds…

Please discuss the relative merits of the following two assertions.

A: “The Church is and ever shall be spotless in her sacraments, in the faith which she has always preserved inviolate, and in her sacred laws imposed on all. Vatican II has not changed, and never could change, that fact.”

B: “Let me put it in very simple terms: the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs which the Catholic Church uses, in the celebration of Novus Ordo masses, are incentives to impiety rather than stimulants to true faith. Capische?”

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About The Codgitator (a cadgertator)

Catholic convert. Quasi-Zorbatic. Freelance interpreter, translator, and web marketer. Former ESL teacher in Taiwan (2003-2012) and former public high school teacher (2012-2014). Married father of three. Multilingual, would-be scholar, and fairly consistent fitness monkey. My research interests include: the interface of religion and science, the history and philosophy of science and technology, ancient and medieval philosophy, and cognitive neuroscience. Please pray for me.
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4 Responses to A meeting of minds…

  1. Fr Paul McDonald says:

    The action of Christ in the Sacraments is immaculate and efficacious. The depositum fidei cannot be touched. The new liturgical surroundings of the Sacraments, the new “rites” are not, in fact, universal. Don’t forget the other 20 Rites of the Church.

  2. Brock Fowler says:

    The people that I see go most nuts about this issue overlook this very important point: we bring understandings into the mass with us. So, granted, somebody who goes to nothing but the Novus Ordo, and studies nothing outside of the mass, will have a very defective understanding of the faith.

    But a well formed Catholic brings into the mass with him understandings that make up for what is not said and what is not stressed and what is confused.

  3. Brock. One can also be a lover of classical music but if he is prohibited from hearing Bach, Mozart and Palestrina, and only permitted to hear The Village People, The 1910 Fruitgum Company, and “Pencil Neck Geek” by Freddie Blassie, he will be hard pressed to remain sane 🙂

    Said otherwise, Bugnini’s revolutionary rite is a solvent dissolving Tradition and its a pluperfect example of execrable ecumenism and if that Rite is not destroyed there will never be a restoration of Tradition and so it will be left to small groups of like-minded men to keep Tradition alive

  4. OK, the first prop is accurate owing to the truth that the risen Christ has passed over into the Sacraments and that it is He who actualises the sacraments – even the Lil’ Licit Liturgy- but while the Shadow Church could not change Doctrine, she did change her theology to the detriment of the Faith and that in turn has led to a change in the beliefs of pam and pat pew dweller.

    Our Church chose to be of service to the world farther than to be be in service of Jesus and while Jesus would never let His Bride be dragged out into the alley to be raped and impregnated by heretical hordes He has let her dress like Ruth Buzzy and lets her hop around Saint Peter’s Square on a Pogo stick to the amusement of the world.

    Speaking of The Salvation Army, who amongst us would be shocked if the Bishop of Rome stuck a huge red pot in the middle of Saint Peter’s Square and began ringing bells for collections for the poor?

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